Post by Tohsaka Rin on Jul 18, 2011 1:23:31 GMT -5
Well, it might appear strange to have this thread and I honestly did not think that it would be necessary until recently.
Everything is already written out in the Rules and the Character Pointers, and some in great detail. However others apparently not well enough or some cases would not have happened in the past.
We also had a discussion about allowing more or less, but it was decided to stick to the old Rules and thus makes all of thereafter to be considered during the creation of a profile.
GENERAL
Legends are the definition of a Heroic Spirit, and their Legend what is becoming a Noble Phantasm. Although Nasu himself went with rather free interpretations of some myths, the board has decided to stick closer to the original myths to not allow something that was made up in one's head rather than by someone else.
Considering that the Nasuverse claims that there is no God (although it is plausible that Alayah could be the what people accepted as god in the past), it is also not possible to overuse that concept and turn a character into a superservant of god.
We also have legends that are totally overhyped and that cannot be applied to the board. Like people Holding the World will not give them a Noble Phantasm that allows them on EX Rank to throw any kind of object, no matter the size or weight. Personally I would even come with "Where did he stand? On a turtle floating through the universe?", but that's aside the point now.
OVERPOWERING:
Some profiles or characters were removed because they were powerful. A character is as previously stated defined by their Legends/Noble Phantasms. If someone later gets a Noble Phantasm that is actually more powerful than an NP of those characters you can already see the troubles on the horizon.
But what is worse is that it will most likely not work. You always need to consider a relation between the existing characters from Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night when making a character. Because you have Herakles, the strongest man known and Gilgamesh who is canonwise always defined to be the most powerful hero. You cannot exactly make someone with greater overall abilities.
It is also common for people to have rather bloomy and vague comments in their myths, like horses that are on one page as tough as steel and can't be hurt by a sword and some pages later, they run against a tree and collapse.... They are still in the Myth itself defined as a normal horse, so don't take every single line too lilteral. Think about the chance of someone really throwing Islands around.
Close to Legends
After taking the previous point into consideration it is now more about knowing the legend well. There is always some way of interpretation and some comments can turn into something like a weapon or a shield.... While not a fan of that it was used already, but it is definitely bad to use something without proper roots.
A single line like "He was not hurt in combat once." Does not allow someone to give the hero a Noble Phantasm like God Hand. There are many heroes that have this line and it just can't compare to someone having been turned immune that only the heel is vulnerable. The foundations are profoundly different.
The same applies to someone having healed overnight because of their shield. The night is long and then turning it into an expanding Shield Noble Phantasm that heals ALL wounds instantly with the exception of Killing Blows is just not working. Especially not when you have Avalon as a comparison object that has worked like the Healing Overnight and has a much stronger background.
Or would you think that you can give Lu Bu an instant death curse because of "OH MY GOD! It's Lu Bu! Did you hear!? It is said that everyone who crosses swords with him will die!" No matter how true that might have been in one sense, it was because he was just stated to be powerful and not because people died without him even touching them..... It would be a different story if someone were to give Guan Yu a death curse that activates whenever he is killed in combat.
That would have a good foundation. Of course you still run into 2 problems here. For one you could also argument that it would only work on Lu Meng and second and more importantly.. NP effects die when the servant dies. Would as such be quite pointless.
To stop with the examples. If you make your stuff up to a big degree, it is the same as writing up Darth Vader. The proportion is a different one, but the steps behind are not. I hope this is now clear enough.
No Overslotting
Some Noble Phantasms have more than one effect, like Godhand, but the generality does only have one. Especially active NP only have one, or you would not have Cu Chulainn with 2 Gae Bolg NPs. You also need to consider that the more powerful effects an NP has the higher the chance that it will be looked at with sceptical eyes.
There is a major difference between someone unleashing an attack and receiving one stat boost in comparison to someone activating a powerful defense skill, next to a powerful offensive skill, that also unleashes a powerful attack as a side product. (That is even more a thing to lead to confusion when it does not fulfill the requirements stated in the previous 'category'.
Servants are Legends.. and stuffed into a Class
If someone does not have a proper legend to back anything up like a Noble Phantasm, then they don't have much of a legend to begin with. There are some that can get excuses because their legends are not exactly the glorious one, but you can already feel it yourself... isn't it depressing to think up Noble Phantasms and realize that you have absolutely nothing to back it up, other than fiddling in the deepest parts of your brains to turn a flickering light into something great? (Lack of foundation btw).
The board follows the classes Rule, if you cannot put a Hero into one of the existing classes without rewriting their history than it is not allowed. If you have a witch than it is easy to make them a Caster, if you don't have anything on them, you cannot just write Magus Skills on them, if they don't have any ties to it (in Myth). It is a rewrite.
With this you also easily can stop breaking your head over 'What is a Hero? What did they do for mankind?' It makes no sense to think about it when you cannot fit them into a class.
Magi
Not exactly extremely well fitting here, but to state it again. No witches, sorcerors or characters that are leaning on those concepts to actually be stronger than Western Thaumaturgy. Western Thaumaturgy is in terms of magic (without leaning to real witchcraft) the strongest concept and Eastern People are looked down upon. You can now see this mainly because they are weaker, or because they are stronger using the previously mentioned example of witchcraft.
There are several limiters concerning elements and the restrictions of not using some character types. (Witches etc.) They should give you a good example, but to clear it out. Please only make characters that use Thaumaturgy. No extremely alternate ways of chanting, not mixing in totally different systems that either create new systems or in the worst case go into sorcery/witchcraft or against canon, and no Anti-Servant Spells.
It would also be nice to stick to the great basic elements to not strive off into unknown territory. Especially beginners on this forum, should not start off with extreme attempts, despite understanding myself, that someone wishes to make something special at times.
FINAL LINES
Please read yourselves more into the Rules and the Templates. Everything is actually already written, but I accept that some parts are not highlighted well enough or in bad cases only speak about one topic, while only subtle hinting the other problems that can arise. This thread is here to solve this once and for all. Don't make it so hard on the staff to approve something. No one really enjoys to tear up profiles and then get stupid comments about mod strictness or that something was rejected because of personal opinion of a mod.
If you think that some rules are too strict, you can always make use of the Suggestions Thread, but I might here highlight once more: The Rules about the Setting were recently discussed and judged to be good. All Rules here have their reason and while certainly restricting some things, have been judged to be useful.
If you cannot adapt to those points, then this board might not be for you, albeit I personally don't think that any rule will be a cause for problems and smaller things can always be discussed.
Everything is already written out in the Rules and the Character Pointers, and some in great detail. However others apparently not well enough or some cases would not have happened in the past.
We also had a discussion about allowing more or less, but it was decided to stick to the old Rules and thus makes all of thereafter to be considered during the creation of a profile.
GENERAL
Legends are the definition of a Heroic Spirit, and their Legend what is becoming a Noble Phantasm. Although Nasu himself went with rather free interpretations of some myths, the board has decided to stick closer to the original myths to not allow something that was made up in one's head rather than by someone else.
Considering that the Nasuverse claims that there is no God (although it is plausible that Alayah could be the what people accepted as god in the past), it is also not possible to overuse that concept and turn a character into a superservant of god.
We also have legends that are totally overhyped and that cannot be applied to the board. Like people Holding the World will not give them a Noble Phantasm that allows them on EX Rank to throw any kind of object, no matter the size or weight. Personally I would even come with "Where did he stand? On a turtle floating through the universe?", but that's aside the point now.
OVERPOWERING:
Some profiles or characters were removed because they were powerful. A character is as previously stated defined by their Legends/Noble Phantasms. If someone later gets a Noble Phantasm that is actually more powerful than an NP of those characters you can already see the troubles on the horizon.
But what is worse is that it will most likely not work. You always need to consider a relation between the existing characters from Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night when making a character. Because you have Herakles, the strongest man known and Gilgamesh who is canonwise always defined to be the most powerful hero. You cannot exactly make someone with greater overall abilities.
It is also common for people to have rather bloomy and vague comments in their myths, like horses that are on one page as tough as steel and can't be hurt by a sword and some pages later, they run against a tree and collapse.... They are still in the Myth itself defined as a normal horse, so don't take every single line too lilteral. Think about the chance of someone really throwing Islands around.
Close to Legends
After taking the previous point into consideration it is now more about knowing the legend well. There is always some way of interpretation and some comments can turn into something like a weapon or a shield.... While not a fan of that it was used already, but it is definitely bad to use something without proper roots.
A single line like "He was not hurt in combat once." Does not allow someone to give the hero a Noble Phantasm like God Hand. There are many heroes that have this line and it just can't compare to someone having been turned immune that only the heel is vulnerable. The foundations are profoundly different.
The same applies to someone having healed overnight because of their shield. The night is long and then turning it into an expanding Shield Noble Phantasm that heals ALL wounds instantly with the exception of Killing Blows is just not working. Especially not when you have Avalon as a comparison object that has worked like the Healing Overnight and has a much stronger background.
Or would you think that you can give Lu Bu an instant death curse because of "OH MY GOD! It's Lu Bu! Did you hear!? It is said that everyone who crosses swords with him will die!" No matter how true that might have been in one sense, it was because he was just stated to be powerful and not because people died without him even touching them..... It would be a different story if someone were to give Guan Yu a death curse that activates whenever he is killed in combat.
That would have a good foundation. Of course you still run into 2 problems here. For one you could also argument that it would only work on Lu Meng and second and more importantly.. NP effects die when the servant dies. Would as such be quite pointless.
To stop with the examples. If you make your stuff up to a big degree, it is the same as writing up Darth Vader. The proportion is a different one, but the steps behind are not. I hope this is now clear enough.
No Overslotting
Some Noble Phantasms have more than one effect, like Godhand, but the generality does only have one. Especially active NP only have one, or you would not have Cu Chulainn with 2 Gae Bolg NPs. You also need to consider that the more powerful effects an NP has the higher the chance that it will be looked at with sceptical eyes.
There is a major difference between someone unleashing an attack and receiving one stat boost in comparison to someone activating a powerful defense skill, next to a powerful offensive skill, that also unleashes a powerful attack as a side product. (That is even more a thing to lead to confusion when it does not fulfill the requirements stated in the previous 'category'.
Servants are Legends.. and stuffed into a Class
If someone does not have a proper legend to back anything up like a Noble Phantasm, then they don't have much of a legend to begin with. There are some that can get excuses because their legends are not exactly the glorious one, but you can already feel it yourself... isn't it depressing to think up Noble Phantasms and realize that you have absolutely nothing to back it up, other than fiddling in the deepest parts of your brains to turn a flickering light into something great? (Lack of foundation btw).
The board follows the classes Rule, if you cannot put a Hero into one of the existing classes without rewriting their history than it is not allowed. If you have a witch than it is easy to make them a Caster, if you don't have anything on them, you cannot just write Magus Skills on them, if they don't have any ties to it (in Myth). It is a rewrite.
With this you also easily can stop breaking your head over 'What is a Hero? What did they do for mankind?' It makes no sense to think about it when you cannot fit them into a class.
Magi
Not exactly extremely well fitting here, but to state it again. No witches, sorcerors or characters that are leaning on those concepts to actually be stronger than Western Thaumaturgy. Western Thaumaturgy is in terms of magic (without leaning to real witchcraft) the strongest concept and Eastern People are looked down upon. You can now see this mainly because they are weaker, or because they are stronger using the previously mentioned example of witchcraft.
There are several limiters concerning elements and the restrictions of not using some character types. (Witches etc.) They should give you a good example, but to clear it out. Please only make characters that use Thaumaturgy. No extremely alternate ways of chanting, not mixing in totally different systems that either create new systems or in the worst case go into sorcery/witchcraft or against canon, and no Anti-Servant Spells.
It would also be nice to stick to the great basic elements to not strive off into unknown territory. Especially beginners on this forum, should not start off with extreme attempts, despite understanding myself, that someone wishes to make something special at times.
FINAL LINES
Please read yourselves more into the Rules and the Templates. Everything is actually already written, but I accept that some parts are not highlighted well enough or in bad cases only speak about one topic, while only subtle hinting the other problems that can arise. This thread is here to solve this once and for all. Don't make it so hard on the staff to approve something. No one really enjoys to tear up profiles and then get stupid comments about mod strictness or that something was rejected because of personal opinion of a mod.
If you think that some rules are too strict, you can always make use of the Suggestions Thread, but I might here highlight once more: The Rules about the Setting were recently discussed and judged to be good. All Rules here have their reason and while certainly restricting some things, have been judged to be useful.
If you cannot adapt to those points, then this board might not be for you, albeit I personally don't think that any rule will be a cause for problems and smaller things can always be discussed.
