Harrr. King of Rome. Wishing to emulate the example of the King of Heroes? Let us see if you are up for the task.
Noble Phantasms:
Quirinus: While it is possible to somehow phantasmize the fact that Romulus founded Rome, that Rome endures, and all that... you're looking to treble your stats for ten minutes. All of them. For ten minutes, you're looking to punch harder than Herakles, run faster than a flying Medusa... need I say more?
Also, a Gundam. Really. While we do have a measure of artistic license (explaining full-plate Gil in ancient times, lady Arthur...), I think this is... pushing it, to say the least.
Fist of the Legion - The Man who is an Army
Gate of Babylon-Lite, I see. Problem is that even though Romulus founded Rome, this fact does not imply that he would own or command the weapons of every Roman Legionnaire that has been used... nor would it imply that he would be able to fling it around like a Gil.
Fist of the Legion- The Inevitable Conquest:
More or less what I have to say about the second Phantasm. Arturia became one of the greatest kings of Great Britain. Yet she does not command every sword used by the Knights of the Round Table, every castle manned by her vassals, nor the Knights of the Round Table themselves, despite them swearing themselves to their king, sharing her dream.
Although Romulus is venerated as Quirinus, although he is likened unto a God, the Heroic Spirit Romulus is still more human than not, and his legends will accordingly be limited to said human deeds.
Post by Gaius Octavius Thurinus on May 24, 2011 21:09:53 GMT -5
I didn't really think I'd get away with everything, but shooting the moon landing in stars all of that. Plus it made me laugh. Perhaps more limited effect: One stat at a time, switchable but with a cost like paying for a NP and its not instant to switch either?
Now then for Fist of the Legion, is this a case of the effect mechanically or the explanation behind it being the problem?
To contrast with Gate of Babylon he's not summoning up individual NPs, his NP is making normal weapons into something more. Recreating, if you will, the creation of the Legions. But it would still be a fairly consistent total power level since the NP is the creation and the weapons themselves individually unremarkable, ergo if he summoned 50ish or 200ish arrows the latter would have a lot less power in each particular arrow.
What I'm going for is to have a guy more based in concept (an army in one man) then in having one particular super weapon. The end effect though I'm really after is just missile spamming. I can do this from a basis of the idea say that he commanded armies in life thus still has their strength as a Heroic Spirit, or just an unexplained hyperspace armory, as ways to cut down on the anachronism of every weapon of Rome.
Ultimately the basic effects are really what I selected the Romulus for, as he's not somebody I found to have a particular weapon so I wouldn't invent one for him. So there are limits on how much to me he's worth changing versus just going with someone else entirely. So I need more to go on really.
[joking]Also for shame that's not a Gundam, a Mobile Suit certainly but not a Gundam! [/joking]
Hmm, one triple-statting? Sure, so long as it's not instantly-switching or something.
Also, the basis for the Legion NPs aren't quite there. He might have laid the basis, but they were just raiding armies taking out other neighboring clans, even disciplined ones. Others turned them into the famed Roman Legions that everyone knows. Namely, Marius.
And, quite frankly, storming hundreds or even dozens of ranked weapons at a single foe is still storming a few hundred weapons, let alone siege engines and the like.
Post by Gaius Octavius Thurinus on May 28, 2011 19:38:45 GMT -5
Well I'm hardly Ramba Ral.
Anyways I could argue about historical truth versus a legendary truth and general anachronism (looking at you mister ancient plate mailed fighter pilot king sir) and about how an attack with a consistent power has only window dressing for a difference from any wide area attack whatever number of weapons it uses which is hardly unfair for categories called anti-army and how I don't care about the siege weaponry anyways..... but I see you seem rather hostile to the whole idea and I will move on to one of the other open slots with a different identity entirely.
Edit: Would Caesar Augustus work along these lines as a man that commanded Rome at the height of its power?
Post by Sola-Ui Nuada-Re Sophia-Ri on Jun 6, 2011 6:34:34 GMT -5
Well Gilgil said he was done with this… so I guess that means it’s me up.
And one of the first things I find is that Octavius disliked the colour white. Odd… didn’t he sheathe the buildings of Rome in a material that’s white? Just something to consider.
But let’s move into something more meaty, shall we?
Augustus – Armor of the Eternal City: And you have a leftover of your previous attempt here in the description, mentioning Romulus again. So this is available to all the emperors then, is what you are saying with the unrivalled authority part? Well oh well, I can believe only he had it, but let’s go into the actual mechanics.
It triples a stat for 15 minutes. Ok then let’s look at some comparative phantasms to this. Since you are probably going to triple strength or agility let’s use them as examples. B -> B++ Represents a difference of 80 points in the skill. If you tripled Endurance that’s about 60 points. Now, let’s compare it to Roland’s sword, Durandal. Which raises Agility and Strength by one rank for 5 minutes. That’s 20 points. So you can maintain this armour (Which also gives you damage reduction, apparently substantial) three times as long… for between 3 to 4 times the effect? With less mana?
Not only this, but you can triple the strength of your phantasms while wearing this. So your Anti-Fortress will suddenly become the equivalent of Excalibur, or your Imperium a third stronger than a spear that never fails to kill? To start off with it already outclasses that spear, despite being a lesser rank. And with the ability to portion out the time instead of leaving it on, what’s to stop you from ever not using your phantasms at triple strength again? So this part is going to have to be a denied too. Basically at best this phantasm requires heavy decreasing.
Res Gestae: This is realistically being generous since these are ‘common’ siege weapons and Octavius doesn’t do anything to alter the path of the development of seigecraft, and the Roman Sappers were not as extraordinary as say the legionaries, at least in the idea of 'legendary' But this rank should be lowered to B to match the GoB clone. Yes it can still be an AF, but also as the fact that this area is so widespread… Compare it to say Excalibur which is a directed weapon like an individual siege weapon. The ideal behind an AF attack is a concentrated blast, meant to wipe out a part of a fortress to gain entrance. The description behind this resembles an anti-army instead, with a widespread area of equal devastation, despite the fact that the individual weapons are based on attacking fortresses.
Also, for this I will need to know the sort of area this can cover, since you only say ‘wide area’. Too wide an Area, and it moves to AA, since letting this take out fortress phantasms, and allowing it a massive radius is too much. Think Excalibur sinks a ship instead of utterly disentigrating it, but I will allow this more radius than that... Also since this is a sustained attack… how exactly is agility not useful to avoid this again? You could say move out of the range, or dodge the individual projectiles with the Agility. Since it’s sustained, and I doubt the ability completely covers the sky for the full effect. Strength is the odd determining one here, and should probably be swapped with Agility. Endurance to survive the strike of the individual weapons, and Agility to dodge them.
This just seems like an Anti-Fortress designed for taking out individual opponents rather than opposing structures/fortress phantasms.
Moving onto skills now:
Guile: Combining Bravery and EotM because you want to cover both/ran out of slots? No. At best this ‘ability’ of guile should be under EoMS.
Military Tactics B: Too high for Octavius. You do not have the military genius of Alexander under your belt, so you shouldn’t have his rank. Especially when you mention that his victories were helped by subordinates to a great degree. I would recommend C.
The fact that this profile can just take phantasms manufactured for another person and reuse them somewhat irks me.
Post by Gaius Octavius Thurinus on Jun 6, 2011 18:09:06 GMT -5
Romulus typo is gone.
Sliced Augustus by three and no NP effects.
Res Gestae is now a limited defense
Guile was always Bravery by different means so that's all it is now. (Honestly, the rest of it was fluff, a paaaale echo of EoM with any of the scale)
(For the record I considered agility less important from the law of averages. Basically you would get hit sooner or later unless you escape can escape the radius)
Post by Sola-Ui Nuada-Re Sophia-Ri on Jun 6, 2011 22:34:10 GMT -5
I'd really like to know the reason behind not liking the colour white, honestly.
With your new phantasm, I'd actually like to see the substantially reduces damage removed from the armour. He can raise his endurance rank with the armour, if he actually wants to take less damage.
Also... I'm not certain you read what I said. I told you to decrease a rank of a seperate phantasm, but you increased the rank of another? Lower this down to B, which as I said in the previous post, is generous enough. With the justification and the usability by others from that same one, others might say this is just a D rank attack, so the B was generous. And... I know you said it was window dressing, but the B phantasm is only considering the entire area. With one volley, at one servant, this isn't going to be the most amazing attack out there, even for B rank. It will be very very very survivable. Because each individual projectile is weak. Instinct might even completely negate this phantasm. Just figured I'd warn you. Its not like an explosion from Gae Bolg that does the full damage to the entire area.
If there was something that large to shoot at... maybe~
And towards the agility comment, less hits is still better. As you said, each projectile would be less than the entire phantasm (The damage is spread out), but say something like protection from arrows, with high agility, could mostly dodge this. Strength is the random one, and the only use I can picture it having is perhaps batting back projectiles at Octavius~?
Post by Gaius Octavius Thurinus on Jun 7, 2011 20:59:45 GMT -5
Octavius dislikes white as a dislike, but its not a beserk button or anything like that. Also on marble he would confess that while he exactly doesn't care for the color it was simply the most suitable to rebuild Rome in, that would be well received by the general populace that valued it. The famous line about marble is propaganda not really his last words for example. I also noted it as wearing white, he doesn't like wearing it because its too easy to stain. Not that he'd admit such a mundane reason to dislike it or anything and would babble something about its symbolism being false.
I put it in there to make me laugh much like putting cooking in there.
Changes: -Armor's protection was always a fluff line. Sliced.
-Ranked Imperium back down. Bumped up its use by one.
-Bumped Res Gestae by one rank up with the same restrictions making it Octavius' ultimate trick instead.
I don't really no how to respond to "others might say this is just a D rank attack" at all. I can't find a baseline for that among known NPs as the only one D rank is Fragarach misfiring. There's more A+ and up then anything else. So I consider an A rank somewhere simply appropriate for a guy who can be genuinely said to have changed the world.
And um while sure I mean Imperium as a board attack (because its anti-army) I don't mean it to be weak since its still an NP. Instinct couldn't stop three strikes at once because the weapon doesn't have the scope to cover the area. And Imperium would hit with considerably more then three at once. You'd have to cover your entire body simultaneously with something strong enough for blocking.
Now something with some area of effect would work pretty well. A sufficient NP shield like Rho Aias would eat Imperium for breakfast. But its still an NP not a normal attack, each one isn't B rank (letting them stack damage like Gate of Babylon does) but its still coming from a heroic spirit as an NP so their not down to normal either. Simply parrying shouldn't stop the attack. Have added a couple of lines about this.
(Obviously its still B rank so I'm not expecting any reasonably tough opponent to just die even if they do nothing either)
Post by Sigurd Fafnesbane on Jun 7, 2011 21:19:53 GMT -5
Since Sola's on extro.
Yeah. No. If Sola said to bump Res Gestae down, she means to bump it down and leave it there, not to randomly bump the other higher, or vice versa.
An unranked, non-legendary weapon, let alone an arrow or a SLINGSTONE plink'ing off of a Servant's armor or whatever is, individually weak. No matter how you dress it up, no matter what you say, it's going to be a shitty, rain of arrows hitting an area bigger than the broadside of a barn, the backside of the obligatory yo mamma joke, etc, since a Servant is comparatively smaller. Much, much smaller. If you're going Jet Li's Hero on the Servant, then you're wasting a bigass army effect on a single man. Comprende?
B is generous, considering that it's just arrows.
Before you even try it, no, you are not concentrating a thousand and one arrows onto a single Servant. Not happening.
Just because it has Noble Phantasm plastered on the label doesn't make it automatically super compared to Gae Bolg or something. Comparatively, a crappy rain of arrows vs a Servant won't be much compared to the power of the Spear of Death Flight. I've turned up more ground by hosing down an ant hill.
Octavian might have carved out a mighty seat of power. He may have great Phantasms. Your problem is that you're not using them, but using Phantasms that can be applied to all Roman Emperors in history, which by itself should drastically weaken the level of mystery, since the first two are being bandied about like a 5 dollar hooker at a frat party.
